Ford Frustration

"Pickup_man" (zekeh) 08/08/2016 at 16:22 • Filed to: None

0

23

This weekend was a frustrating one, more so for my dad, because it’s his truck, but still frustrating for everyone involved. Dad has a 2009 F-150, with the final year of the 3 valve 5.4 Triton V8. It’s been a trusty truck, hauling our boat and gear 12 hours north to Canada for fishing trips for years, pulling a trailer full of ATV’s out to the Black Hills for a fun filled weekend, carrying me and four of my best friends through South Dakota and Montana for a spring break trip in Yellowstone (because who wants to somewhere warm for spring break right?). It has performed it’s truckly duties well over the years with nary a complaint apart from the ubiquitous busted exhaust manifold bolts that plague every Ford 5.4, until recently.

It all started on our yearly trip to Canada. While sitting at the border crossing we heard an odd clicking sound, almost like an exhaust leak, but not quite. It didn’t last long, no more than 30 seconds or so, and it was gone. We drove the rest of the 400 some miles (643 kilometers because we’re in Canada now) with no sounds or noises what so ever. About half way through the trip, the noise returned, once again only for a short while but when we got out to try and find where it was coming from it stopped and didn’t come back for the entire way home. The noise came and went a few more times in the following months and when the check engine light came on Dad decided to bring it to the dealer to have it checked out. A day and a half later he gets a call, “Your cam phasers are locking up, the noise you’re hearing is the timing chain slapping around.” Now, for anyone unfamiliar with the 3v 5.4, cam phasers are a very common problem, but even when they go bad it’s more of an annoyance issue, and maybe a slight drop in fuel economy, not something to be overly concerned about. So you can imagine my shock when Dad told me that they recommended replacing the entire engine at a cost of $7000, instead of performing the Ford TSB and replacing the phasers and cam train at a common cost of around $2000. They claimed concerns of metal in the engine, but didn’t actually bother to check and confirm. So we brought the truck home and decided to check the oil for ourselves in the hope that it was just the phasers making noise and we would be able to get away with the much simpler phaser change before trading the truck off. Much to our dismay, a quick pass of a magnet through the oil pan revealed large bits of metal, and a dissection of the oil filter confirmed our worst fears, this engine was about to eat itself alive, and there was nothing we could do about it. This was kind of a punch to the gut for both of us, Dad has been buying Ford trucks for years, and my own ‘99 F-150 (dad’s old one) with the 2v 5.4 has been a faithful work horse for 17 years and 185,000 miles, is in good shape and still going strong. Then here’s his ‘09, with a tick over 85,000 miles, which certainly hasn’t been a model of quality, with it’s faded emblems (the ones that haven’t fallen off) rusted out cab corners, leaky SAT radio antenna, and an engine that lunched itself much earlier than it should have. Needless to say as a fan of Ford (bordering on fanboy, but not quite) it’s shaken my faith, and Dad’s.

Dad’s been really stressed over this because of the obvious disappointment in his truck, and because he’s supposed to help my sister move 12-ish hours away to Denver in two weeks. So now he has two weeks to call around, get a couple quotes on engine replacements, get the truck fixed, and potentially buy a new truck. It’s either that, or borrow mine, in which case I need to get new ball joints and bushings replaced before I let him tow a loaded 18' enclosed trailer 12 hours away from home. With the rate at which Dad makes big decisions and spends that kind of money, there’s a pretty good chance that my truck will get to travel to Colorado and be envious of all of it’s brothers/sisters and their general lack of rust.

He’s been looking around at a few new trucks, and has been leaning towards Ford still, despite the letdown, but he’s considering others as well. If he does go with a Ford I’m persuading him from staying away from the Eco-Boost, not because it’s a bad motor, but because the 5.0 will easily serve his needs, and in general it seems to have less problems and complaints than the 3.5, and the last thing Dad needs right now is problems. Regardless of what he ends up in, let’s hope it last longer than his current truck.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Pickup_man 08/08/2016 at 16:43

0

Thoughts, use your truck to tow the trailer to Denver. Buy new truck in Denver, tow old truck home.

DipodomysDeserti > Pickup_man 08/08/2016 at 16:46

0

$7,000 for a Ferd engine? Here’s your solution . It has LeSs cams too. In all seriousness, good luck with the truck. It always sucks when newer stuff breaks.

BIGBLOCK472 - wide and bizarre > Pickup_man 08/08/2016 at 16:46

2

Don’t fix it. Sell it to CarMax like yesterday and run like hell.

mazda616 > Pickup_man 08/08/2016 at 16:57

0

You can rent pickup trucks from U-Haul. $19.95 a day. I am not sure on mileage limits, though. I think Enterprise and such rent them, too. That’s what I’d do. Call Hertz, Enterprise, etc. and tell them you need to rent a truck.

That sucks about the 5.4. My friend just had to help his uncle rebuild the engine in his at 100,000 miles. It threw a rod.

Pickup_man > Future next gen S2000 owner 08/08/2016 at 17:00

0

Wrong kind of trailer, but it’s a thought.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Pickup_man 08/08/2016 at 17:00

1

I kinda get the impression that if you guys had stopped when you first heard the sound it probably would’ve been just the cams. Continuing on for as long as you did is probably what put the nail in it.

I know it sucks, but this is why as much as a Ford fan as I am, I never recommend a truck with a 5.4L in it.

Pickup_man > DipodomysDeserti 08/08/2016 at 17:01

0

That’s why he’s checking a few other places, $7,000 seems a bit high.

Pickup_man > mazda616 08/08/2016 at 17:05

0

Yeah, I’ve got no problem letting him use mine if he doesn’t buy a new one by then, really no need to rent a truck, timing just could have been better.

Shift24 > Pickup_man 08/08/2016 at 17:06

0

Well according to OPPO suggestions you could do an LS swap for pennies.

All jokes aside its never fun to lose an engine (unless your trying too) and can cost some serious head aches. But 7K for an engine swap? Never been a Ford fan but Id tell them to shove it no matter what brand. No way its that rare of an engine and that hard to swap in a truck. Should be maybe 3.5k on the high end for a lightly used motor. A Family member had a 3.4L v6 swapped for $2k.

Now as a GM fan im bias so my suggestion will be obvious. But as a owner of a 96 K1500 SB and multiple friends who have owned truck LS, there is a reason they are swapped into everything.

Pickup_man > BIGBLOCK472 - wide and bizarre 08/08/2016 at 17:07

0

No CarMax here, and we’re to honest to pull that. It’s a shitty situation but he’s not about to screw someone else over (except for maybe the Ford dealership, but they already know about the problems...).

TysMagic > Pickup_man 08/08/2016 at 17:09

0

As I was reading I was thinking this is going to be cam phasers or he’s going to say the spark plug broke off in the block - either way common problem. Still, sucks that is happens! For what it’s worth, Ford has 0% for 72 months going on at the moment.

Pickup_man > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 08/08/2016 at 17:23

1

It probably would have been, but it wasn’t an overly worrying sound, it went away quickly and we couldn’t replicate it, so there didn’t seem to be much of a concern. It sounded more like a rattle than an engine problem. The second time it made the noise it was the same story, short amount of time, sounded like something was loose and rattling around, got out of the truck, tried to look around, revved the engine a little bit and everything sounded fine. It was a bit more concerning that time, but we were 600 miles from home, in Canada, and didn’t really have much of a choice but to drive it back. It drove all the way home with no noises whatsoever. It wasn’t until the engine light came on that we scanned it and took it in, and even then we weren’t all that concerned because once again, it didn’t sound that bad, and the noise was similar to the noise my ‘99 with the 5.4 has been making for 10+/100k+ years/miles. So yeah, stopping right then probably would have saved it, but how were we supposed to know any better? If it had sounded worse than a little rattle, or had continued instead of going away we certainly wouldn’t have kept going.

I’ll never be recommending a 3v 5.4 for sure from now on, my 2v 5.4, while it has some annoyances like the manifolds and spark plug thing has been a very reliable engine* and are known to go well over 200k.

*furiously knocks on wood

Pickup_man > Shift24 08/08/2016 at 17:30

0

The Ford dealer quoted that as parts and labor for a re-man with 3 year warranty and said that’s the only way they’ll guarantee their work. My parents live 3 miles from one of the largest junkyards in the midwest that also has a repair shop and a reputable business, I’m hoping they can do a lot better.

As a Ford fan (not quite a fanboy remember) I agree that the LS is a solid motor, I’m just not overly impressed with the rest of GM’s trucks, not saying they’re bad, I’m just not impressed with them, or some of the decisions they make. As good of a reputation as the LS has though everyone has their problems, my cousin blew 3 5.3's in a matter of months on normal use before switching to Ford.

Pickup_man > TysMagic 08/08/2016 at 17:33

0

Yeah, owning a 5.4 myself I’ve done a ton of research on these engines. They definitely have a number of problems that Ford should have done a better job in addressing, however, these problems usually aren’t catastrophic to the point that it takes out the whole engine. Guess we got one of the bad ones.

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > Pickup_man 08/08/2016 at 18:06

1

I have an 04 with the 5.4 3V as well, with over 205k miles. My cam phasers have been bad for a while I thing but I haven't noticed anything different I don't think...

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Pickup_man 08/09/2016 at 09:16

0

Yeah that whole scenario is pretty shitty. It’s one of the reasons I just avoid them all together. Something so quiet and seemingly not a big deal can blow a motor. I completely understand you missing it. I probably would have kept driving too!

Are you guys thinking about maybe a different motor for it than the 5.4L? I mean if you’re spending the money on it maybe put you’re favorite 2V one in it, or if it’s not too expensive jump to a 5.0, I haven’t heard any complaints about them so I’ve been very supportive of them so far.

I’m sure the transmission and electronics accepting the motor is going to be a big part of it. I know you’re spending money on a motor I’d be hesitant to want to drop the cash on a trans too!

Pickup_man > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 08/09/2016 at 09:45

0

No, we’re going to do one of two things, Dad’s bringing it in today to see what he can get for a trade in as-is, if it’s lower than he wants we found a place that will replace the engine for cheaper, and with all new accessories (water pump etc. something the Ford dealer wasn’t going to include) for cheaper, with a 3 year/100k warranty. If he goes that route he’ll keep the truck for another 3 years. It’s just a basic pickup that’s already starting to rust and we’ve got no attachment to it, so changing the engine completely is more work than it’s worth.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Pickup_man 08/09/2016 at 10:44

1

Fair enough, and it’s almost always cheaper to go outside the dealer for service so I completely get that!

BIGBLOCK472 - wide and bizarre > Pickup_man 08/09/2016 at 11:46

0

Honesty is noble in most aspects of your life, but car buying is different. My morals and values would prevent me from selling a time bomb to a private seller, but that does not apply to a dealership. With 85k on the clock, the truck is likely going to the auction anyway, and those buyers know that they don’t know what they are getting every time. They are likely buying in bulk with the hope that the expense of one dud is made up for by the other good buys they make.

I just traded a low mileage, great looking lemon in for a nice used Camry. I lied to the dealer about the condition and mechanical reliability of my trade. The dealership lied to me about my trade in value. I lied to the dealership about what I could afford. After a couple of trips to the sales manager we worked out a deal that was beneficial for both of us. They got a pretty car to sell, and I got a reliable appliance I can depend on.

People who buy cars with no warranty get what they get. It’s shitty, but taking a $2k or $7k hit to your bank account to make sure the next person’s feelings aren’t hurt is not a wise financial decision. That’s the gamble people make when they buy used versus CPO with a warranty.

I still say patch it up and ditch it while you still can. If anyone needs to be punished, it would be Ford for developing a flawed product, and the best way to do that is by trading it in at a competing brand. Everyone hurts when a company skimps on R&D!

Pickup_man > BIGBLOCK472 - wide and bizarre 08/09/2016 at 12:35

0

That’s the thing, the dealership knows man, they know , otherwise we’d probably just take it in and trade it off without telling them, granted the check engine light would make that difficult. Dad’s bringing it to the dealer today to see what they’ll give him as-is, if he’s not happy with that we found a place to replace the engine, with more, for less and with a 3 year/100k warranty, in which case he’ll keep it for 3 more years, then dump it off at the dealer.

As obvious as a design flaw as it is, and even with Ford’s reluctance to stand behind it more, it was out of warranty, and it’s not enough to completely turn me, or Dad, off from Ford, my personal truck has been great along with every Ford we’ve had apart from this one. They seem to have their stuff figured out now and I still prefer their trucks over GM’s or Ram’s. If Dad decides to look at the competition I’m not going to stop him, but he’s still leaning towards a newer Ford as well.

BIGBLOCK472 - wide and bizarre > Pickup_man 08/09/2016 at 21:09

0

I’d try to set up an Internet sale at a GM or Ram dealership 50 miles down the road and bring the truck in once they’ve given a decent ballpark on trade in. Might work and it’s definitely worth a shot.

How much is the replacement engine?

I really hate y’all are in that situation

Pickup_man > BIGBLOCK472 - wide and bizarre 08/10/2016 at 09:07

0

Replacement engine is $6000, includes all accessories and the 3 year warranty. The trade in value from the Ford dealership was damn near insulting, but not surprising so he’s going to get the engine replaced and hang on to it for three more years. He’s still leaning pretty hard to Ford, but needless to say we’ll be finding a different dealership when it’s time to replace the truck.

19JRC99 > Pickup_man 12/14/2016 at 22:39

1

We just got a 2016 Sport 4x4 with the 5.0. Great truck, I’d definitely learn towards that.